Mening over religie

quote:Bloesie schreef op 20 augustus 2010 @ 08:43:

[...]





Heb je Bijbel wel eens goed gelezen dan?

Zeker het OT is doorspekt met dood en verderf.....



Daar gaan we weer. Daar had ik het niet over, he.

De Bijbel, ja, dat weet ik ook wel. Dus?

Dus wat Marnie?

We hebben het over meningen over religie, en ik mag dus niet refereren aan het feit dat menig religie doorspekt is van dood ende verderf?

We hebben het toch niet alleen over de Islam?

Het is niet zo dat wanneer ik de (voor mij) slechte kanten van de ene religie belicht, dat ik dan blind ben voor de slechte kanten van de andere. Dat heb ik al vaker duidelijk gemaakt.

Ik weet alleen niet of dat voor iedereen geldt.

Marnie, ik heb ook niet gezegd dat je blind bent voor de slechte kanten van andere religies. Dat je dat vaker duidelijk hebt gemaakt zal dan wel, ik heb dat niet zo vernomen, vandaar mijn interpretatie.

quote:marnie schreef op 20 augustus 2010 @ 08:41:

Valt me ook op in discussies over religie:

Gaat het over de Islam, dan komt iedereen: jaaaa, maar RK zijn ook pedofielen.....kruistochten....paus ellende....

Gebeurt dat andersom ook?

Dus, als er een discussie is over pedofiele RK priesters, of Staphorst / biblebelt taferelen, zijn we er dan ook als de kippen bij met roepen: jaaaa, maar moslims blazen zich zelf op...terroristen...islam ook intolerant...etc.

Goede vraag, en nee, dat gebeurt andersom veel minder.

Ik denk dat dat komt omdat het voor veel mensen overduidelijk is dat niet elke katholiek een pedofiel is, en dat niet elke christen erop uit is anderen zijn regels en moraal op te leggen.

Daarentegen worden veel moslims wel op één hoop gegooid als het over islam en geweld gaat. Soms omdat men er echt in gelooft dat alle moslims vrouwenhatende conservatieve bommenliefhebbers zijn, soms vanwege slordig taalgebruik. Het is niet altijd duidelijk wat iemand bedoelt met 'de koran is een gewelddadig sprookje'; is dat een op zichzelf staande opmerking, of wil diegene er iets mee zeggen over islam en moslims in het algemeen? Aangezien dat laatste vaak het geval blijkt, en op die manier dus een erg negatief beeld wordt geschetst, vind ik het niet raar of slecht als anderen dat in perspectief willen zetten.

Dat dat soms gaat vervelen kan ik inkomen, maar zolang er mensen zijn die beweren dat moslims hun geloof niet mogen praktiseren omdat het gewelddadig is, zullen daar reacties op komen.



Er kan denk ik pas zonder gedoe gezegd worden dat er gewelddadige passages in de koran staan als men niet meer bang hoeft te zijn dat die opmerking voortkomt uit een algemene minachting of angst voor de islam. Zo ver zijn we nog niet, dankzij extremisme aan beide kanten.

Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard

and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them,

take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using

every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are

slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender,

paying the protective tax in submission."

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will

prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and

your religion will be victorious."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief

[non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the

whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion,

and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no

rivals.'"

Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay

them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good

deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting

is righteous, true, and good."

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall

fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam,

humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will

fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We

have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us

at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is

established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are

twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if

there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers,

for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty

good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless

people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth."

Bukhari:V4B52N63 "A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came

to the Prophet and said, 'Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace

Islam first?' The Prophet said, 'Embrace Islam first and then fight.'

So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, 'A

Little work, but a great reward.'"

Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us

to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute

tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:

'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead

such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall

become your master.'"

Muslim:C34B20N4668 "The Messenger said: 'Anybody who equips a warrior

going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights.

And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one

who actually fights."

Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are

asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth?

Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go

forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put

others in your place."

Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find

harshness in you."

Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in

Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave

(them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them - these are

allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those

who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they

do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect

Muslims who fight."

Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till

they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe

in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."

Bukhari:V9B84N59 "Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.'"

Qur'an:8:73 "The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims)

aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah's religion

victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted

Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause (al-Jihad), as well

as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid - these are (all)

Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise)."

Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most

prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the

call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His

Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who

believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and

possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him

forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

Qur'an:48:16 "Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged

behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war

with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and

submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn

back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture."

Qur'an:48:22 "If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will

retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past:

no change will you find in the ways of Allah."

Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle

(fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you

overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you

have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them)

captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what

benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you

commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the

unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Qur'an:47:31 "And We shall try you until We know those among you who

are the fighters."

Tabari VI:138 "Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an

allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah

had permitted fighting."

Tabari VI:139 "Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by

revealing the verse 'And fight them until persecution is no more, and

religion is all for Allah.'"

Qur'an:9:19 "Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the

maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of

Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who

believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in

Allah's Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank

in the sight of Allah."

Ishaq:550 "The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through

many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard

over our battle roars and snarling."

Qur'an:5:94 "Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of

a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails

this test will have a grievous punishment."

Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their

skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy.

Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We

conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was

submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the

Prophet gained victory."

Tabari IX:22 "The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them

bitterly."

Tabari IX:25 "By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted

a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and

make her pregnant."

Tabari IX:82 "The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith

[a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for

three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit,

he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and

the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to

fight them."

Tabari IX:88 "Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and

became a good Muslim. Allah's Apostle invested Azdi with the authority

over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels

from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger's

command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew,

setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to

inflict a heavy loss on them."

Ishaq:530 "Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good

thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will

fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its

revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make

enemies of friends."

Muslim:C9B1N29 "Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do

Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His

Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed

Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu

Bakr said: 'I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying

the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even

to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they

used to pay if they withhold it now.' Allah had justified fighting

against those who refused to pay Zakat."

Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight

against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration

prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are

protected.'"

Muslim:C10B1N176 "Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a

raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a

man and he said: 'There is no god but Allah,' but I attacked him with

a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle

about this. The Messenger said: 'Did he profess "There is no god but

Allah," and even then you killed him?' I said: 'He made a profession

out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.' The Prophet

said: 'Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had

professed truly or not?'"

Muslim:C20B1N4597 "The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: 'There

is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam.

When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should

readily do so.'"

Muslim:C28B20N4628 "Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves

his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word;

Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home

with his reward and booty."

Muslim:C28B20N4629 "The Messenger said: 'One who is wounded in the Way

of Allah - and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way - will

appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color

(of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.'"

Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 "The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over

The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: 'Who is the best

of men?' He replied: 'A man who fights staking his life and spending

his wealth in Allah's Cause.'"

Muslim:C42B20N4684 "A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said:

'Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that

he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high)

position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of

these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?' The Messenger of Allah said:

'Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the

Way of Allah.'"

Muslim:C53B20N4717 "The Prophet said: 'This religion will continue to

exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight

for its protection until the Hour is established.'"

Bukhari:V5B59N288 "I witnessed a scene that was dearer to me than

anything I had ever seen. Aswad came to the Prophet while Muhammad was

urging the Muslims to fight the pagans. He said, 'We shall fight on

your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.' I saw

the face of the Prophet getting bright with happiness, for that saying

delighted him."

Bukhari:V5B59N290 "The believers who did not join the Ghazwa [Islamic

raid or invasion] and those who fought are not equal in reward."

Qur'an:2:193 "Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and

religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no

hostility except against infidel disbelievers."

Qur'an:2:217 "They question you concerning fighting in the sacred

month. Say: 'Fighting therein is a grave (matter); but to prevent

access to Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque,

to expel its members, and polytheism are worse than slaughter. Nor

will they cease fighting you until they make you renegades from your

religion. If any of you turn back and die in unbelief, your works will

be lost and you will go to Hell. Surely those who believe and leave

their homes to fight in Allah's Cause have the hope of Allah's mercy."

Qur'an:2:244 "Fight in Allah's Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all."

Qur'an:2:246 "He said: 'Would you refrain from fighting if fighting

were prescribed for you?' They said: 'How could we refuse to fight in

Allah's Cause?'"

Ishaq:280 "The Apostle prepared for war in pursuance of Allah's

command to fight his enemies and to fight the infidels who Allah

commanded him to fight."

Qur'an:61:2 "O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously

odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which

you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle

array, as if they were a solid cemented structure."

Bukhari:V4B52N61 "Allah's Apostle! We were absent from the first

battle you fought against the pagans. If Allah gives us a chance to do

battle, no doubt, He will see how bravely we fight."

Ishaq:398 "Ask them for their help. Thereby make the religion of Islam

agreeable to them. And when you are resolved in the matter of religion

concerning fighting your enemy you will have the advantage."

Qur'an:3:146 "How many prophets fought in Allah's Cause? With them

(fought) myriads of godly men who were slain. They never lost heart if

they met with disaster in Allah's Cause, nor did they weaken nor give

in. Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [warriors]."

Ishaq:393 "How many prophets has death in battle befallen and how many

multitudes with him? They did not show weakness toward their enemies

and were not humiliated when they suffered in the fight for Allah and

their religion. That is steadfastness. Allah loves the steadfast."

Qur'an:3:153 "Behold! You ran off precipitately, climbing up the high

hill without even casting a side glance at anyone, while the Messenger

in your rear is calling you from your rear, urging you to fight. Allah

gave you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you

not to grieve for the booty that had escaped you and for (the ill)

that had befallen you."

Qur'an:3:154 "Say: 'Even if you had remained in your houses, those

ordained to be slaughtered would have gone forth to the places where

they were to slain."

Ishaq:440 "Helped by the Holy Spirit we smited Muhammad's foes. The

Apostle sent a message to them with a sharp cutting sword."

Ishaq:470 "We attacked them fully armed, swords in hand, cutting

through heads and skulls."

Qur'an:61:4 "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause."

Qur'an:61:11 "Believers, shall I lead you to a bargain or trade that

will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and

His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive and fight in Allah's

Cause with your property and your lives: That will be best for you!"

Qur'an 61:12 "He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens

under which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Eden: that is

indeed the Supreme Achievement. And another (favor) which you love:

help from Allah for a speedy victory over your enemies."

Qur'an:8:5 "Your Lord ordered you out of your homes to fight for the

true cause, even though some Muslims disliked it, and were averse (to

fighting)."

Qur'an:24:53 "They swear their strongest oaths saying that if only you

would command them. They would leave their homes (and go forth

fighting in Allah's Cause). Say: 'Swear not; Obedience is (more)

reasonable.'"

Qur'an:4:74 "Let those who fight in Allah's Cause sell this world's

life for the hereafter. To him who fights in Allah's Cause, whether he

is slain or victorious, We shall give him a reward."

Qur'an:4:75 "What reason have you that you should not fight in Allah's

Cause?" [Another translation says:] "What is wrong with you that you

do not fight for Allah?"

Qur'an:4:76 "Those who believe fight in the Cause of Allah."

Qur'an:4:77 "Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold

from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders

for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to

have feared Allah. They say: 'Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting

for us, why have You made war compulsory?'"

Qur'an:4:78 "Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in

towers strong and high! So what is wrong with these people, that they

fail to understand these simple words?"

Qur'an:4:84 "Then fight (Muhammad) in Allah's Cause. Incite the

believers to fight with you."

Qur'an:4:94 "Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah's

Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you:

'You are not a believer!' Coveting the chance profits of this life (so

that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty."

Qur'an:4:95 "Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt

and those who fight in Allah's Cause with their wealth and lives.

Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their

possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has

distinguished with a special reward."

Qur'an:4:100 "He who leaves his home in Allah's Cause finds abundant

resources and many a refuge. Should he die as a refugee for Allah and

His Messenger His reward becomes due and sure with Allah. When you

travel through the earth there is no blame on you if you curtail your

worship for fear unbelievers may attack you. In truth the disbelievers

are your enemy."

Qur'an:4:102 "When you (Prophet) lead them in prayer, let some stand

with you, taking their arms with them. When they finish their

prostrations, let them take positions in the rear. And let others who

have not yet prayed come - taking all precaution, and bearing arms.

The Infidels wish, if you were negligent of your arms, to assault you

in a rush. But there is no blame on you if you put away your arms

because of the inconvenience of rain or because you are ill; but take

precaution. For the Unbelieving Infidels Allah hath prepared a

humiliating punishment."

Qur'an:4:104 "And do not relent in pursuing the enemy."

Dan toch hier een vraag. Waarom moet ik wel gaan uitleggen waarom Theo van Gogh vermoordt is, maar heb ik nog nooit iemand horen vragen aan een nederlander of hij even wil verklaren waarom Kars T. besluit op een mensenmassa in te rijden met zn auto? Ik ben hier echt oprecht nieuwschierig naar dus serieuze antwoorden zouden wel fijn zijn.

.

@kareltje

Altijd fijn als een discussie wordt gevoerd in eigen woorden en met leesbare posts.



@Dibah

Ik zeg niet dat je religie niet mag minachten, maar als je vanuit die houding kritiek hebt op religie kun je verwachten dat er reacties op komen. Hoe meer uitgesproken en negatief de uitspraak, hoe sterker de reactie.



Dat mensen over het algemeen onderwezen moeten worden over religies, heilige boeken, en cultuur: helemaal eens. Working on it.

Heer/Dame Tyche,



Ik kan toch moeilijk de koran herschrijven ik zou een miljard fatwas over me heen krijgen, vandaar het origineel, nou ja vertaald naar het Engels:



Qur'an:9:88 "The Messenger and those who believe with him, strive hard

and fight with their wealth and lives in Allah's Cause."

Qur'an:9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them,

take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using

every stratagem of war."

Qur'an:9:112 "The Believers fight in Allah's Cause, they slay and are

slain, kill and are killed."

Qur'an:9:29 "Fight those who do not believe until they all surrender,

paying the protective tax in submission."

Ishaq:325 "Muslims, fight in Allah's Cause. Stand firm and you will

prosper. Help the Prophet, obey him, give him your allegiance, and

your religion will be victorious."

Qur'an:8:39 "Fight them until all opposition ends and all submit to Allah."

Qur'an:8:39 "So fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief

[non-Muslims]) and all submit to the religion of Allah alone (in the

whole world)."

Ishaq:324 "He said, 'Fight them so that there is no more rebellion,

and religion, all of it, is for Allah only. Allah must have no

rivals.'"

Qur'an:9:14 "Fight them and Allah will punish them by your hands, lay

them low, and cover them with shame. He will help you over them."

Ishaq:300 "I am fighting in Allah's service. This is piety and a good

deed. In Allah's war I do not fear as others should. For this fighting

is righteous, true, and good."

Ishaq:587 "Our onslaught will not be a weak faltering affair. We shall

fight as long as we live. We will fight until you turn to Islam,

humbly seeking refuge. We will fight not caring whom we meet. We will

fight whether we destroy ancient holdings or newly gotten gains. We

have mutilated every opponent. We have driven them violently before us

at the command of Allah and Islam. We will fight until our religion is

established. And we will plunder them, for they must suffer disgrace."

Qur'an:8:65 "O Prophet, urge the faithful to fight. If there are

twenty among you with determination they will vanquish two hundred; if

there are a hundred then they will slaughter a thousand unbelievers,

for the infidels are a people devoid of understanding."

Ishaq:326 "Prophet exhort the believers to fight. If there are twenty

good fighters they will defeat two hundred for they are a senseless

people. They do not fight with good intentions nor for truth."

Bukhari:V4B52N63 "A man whose face was covered with an iron mask came

to the Prophet and said, 'Allah's Apostle! Shall I fight or embrace

Islam first?' The Prophet said, 'Embrace Islam first and then fight.'

So he embraced Islam, and was martyred. Allah's Apostle said, 'A

Little work, but a great reward.'"

Bukhari:V4B53N386 "Our Prophet, the Messenger of our Lord, ordered us

to fight you till you worship Allah alone or pay us the Jizyah tribute

tax in submission. Our Prophet has informed us that our Lord says:

'Whoever amongst us is killed as a martyr shall go to Paradise to lead

such a luxurious life as he has never seen, and whoever survives shall

become your master.'"

Muslim:C34B20N4668 "The Messenger said: 'Anybody who equips a warrior

going to fight in the Way of Allah is like one who actually fights.

And anybody who looks after his family in his absence is also like one

who actually fights."

Qur'an:9:38 "Believers, what is the matter with you, that when you are

asked to go forth and fight in Allah's Cause you cling to the earth?

Do you prefer the life of this world to the Hereafter? Unless you go

forth, He will afflict and punish you with a painful doom, and put

others in your place."

Qur'an:9:123 "Fight the unbelievers around you, and let them find

harshness in you."

Qur'an:8:72 "Those who accepted Islam and left their homes to fight in

Allah's Cause with their possessions and persons, and those who gave

(them) asylum, aid, and shelter, those who harbored them - these are

allies of one another. You are not responsible for protecting those

who embraced Islam but did not leave their homes [to fight] until they

do so." [Another translation reads:] "You are only called to protect

Muslims who fight."

Muslim:C9B1N31 "I have been commanded to fight against people till

they testify to the fact that there is no god but Allah, and believe

in me (that) I am the Messenger and in all that I have brought."

Bukhari:V9B84N59 "Whoever says this will save his property and life from me.'"

Qur'an:8:73 "The unbelieving infidels are allies. Unless you (Muslims)

aid each other (fighting as one united block to make Allah's religion

victorious), there will be confusion and mischief. Those who accepted

Islam, left their homes to fight in Allah's Cause (al-Jihad), as well

as those who give them asylum, shelter, and aid - these are (all)

Believers: for them is pardon and bountiful provision (in Paradise)."

Tabari IX:69 "Arabs are the most noble people in lineage, the most

prominent, and the best in deeds. We were the first to respond to the

call of the Prophet. We are Allah's helpers and the viziers of His

Messenger. We fight people until they believe in Allah. He who

believes in Allah and His Messenger has protected his life and

possessions from us. As for one who disbelieves, we will fight him

forever in the Cause of Allah. Killing him is a small matter to us."

Qur'an:48:16 "Say (Muhammad) to the wandering desert Arabs who lagged

behind: 'You shall be invited to fight against a people given to war

with mighty prowess. You shall fight them until they surrender and

submit. If you obey, Allah will grant you a reward, but if you turn

back, as you did before, He will punish you with a grievous torture."

Qur'an:48:22 "If the unbelieving infidels fight against you, they will

retreat. (Such has been) the practice (approved) of Allah in the past:

no change will you find in the ways of Allah."

Qur'an:47:4 "When you clash with the unbelieving Infidels in battle

(fighting Jihad in Allah's Cause), smite their necks until you

overpower them, killing and wounding many of them. At length, when you

have thoroughly subdued them, bind them firmly, making (them)

captives. Thereafter either generosity or ransom (them based upon what

benefits Islam) until the war lays down its burdens. Thus are you

commanded by Allah to continue carrying out Jihad against the

unbelieving infidels until they submit to Islam."

Qur'an:47:31 "And We shall try you until We know those among you who

are the fighters."

Tabari VI:138 "Those present at the oath of Aqabah had sworn an

allegiance to Muhammad. It was a pledge of war against all men. Allah

had permitted fighting."

Tabari VI:139 "Allah had given his Messenger permission to fight by

revealing the verse 'And fight them until persecution is no more, and

religion is all for Allah.'"

Qur'an:9:19 "Do you make the giving of drink to pilgrims, or the

maintenance of the Mosque, equal to those who fight in the Cause of

Allah? They are not comparable in the sight of Allah. Those who

believe, and left their homes, striving with might, fighting in

Allah's Cause with their goods and their lives, have the highest rank

in the sight of Allah."

Ishaq:550 "The Muslims met them with their swords. They cut through

many arms and skulls. Only confused cries and groans could be heard

over our battle roars and snarling."

Qur'an:5:94 "Believers, Allah will make a test for you in the form of

a little game in which you reach out for your lances. Any who fails

this test will have a grievous punishment."

Ishaq:578 "Crushing the heads of the infidels and splitting their

skulls with sharp swords, we continually thrust and cut at the enemy.

Blood gushed from their deep wounds as the battle wore them down. We

conquered bearing the Prophet's fluttering war banner. Our cavalry was

submerged in rising dust, and our spears quivered, but by us the

Prophet gained victory."

Tabari IX:22 "The Prophet continued to besiege the town, fighting them

bitterly."

Tabari IX:25 "By Allah, I did not come to fight for nothing. I wanted

a victory over Ta'if so that I might obtain a slave girl from them and

make her pregnant."

Tabari IX:82 "The Messenger sent Khalid with an army of 400 to Harith

[a South Arabian tribe] and ordered him to invite them to Islam for

three days before he fought them. If they were to respond and submit,

he was to teach them the Book of Allah, the Sunnah of His Prophet, and

the requirements of Islam. If they should decline, then he was to

fight them."

Tabari IX:88 "Abdallah Azdi came to the Messenger, embraced Islam, and

became a good Muslim. Allah's Apostle invested Azdi with the authority

over those who had surrendered and ordered him to fight the infidels

from the tribes of Yemen. Azdi left with an army by the Messenger's

command. The Muslims besieged them for a month. Then they withdrew,

setting a trap. When the Yemenites went in pursuit, Azdi was able to

inflict a heavy loss on them."

Ishaq:530 "Get out of his way, you infidel unbelievers. Every good

thing goes with the Apostle. Lord, I believe in his word. We will

fight you about its interpretations as we have fought you about its

revelation with strokes that will remove heads from shoulders and make

enemies of friends."

Muslim:C9B1N29 "Command For Fighting Against People So Long As They Do

Not Profess That There Is No Ilah (God) But Allah And Muhammad Is His

Messenger: When the Messenger breathed his last and Bakr was appointed

Caliph, many Arabs chose to become apostates [rejected Islam]. Abu

Bakr said: 'I will definitely fight against anyone who stops paying

the Zakat tax, for it is an obligation. I will fight against them even

to secure the cord used for hobbling the feet of a camel which they

used to pay if they withhold it now.' Allah had justified fighting

against those who refused to pay Zakat."

Muslim:C9B1N33 "The Prophet said: 'I have been commanded to fight

against people till they testify there is no god but Allah, that

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and they establish prostration

prayer, and pay Zakat. If they do it, their blood and property are

protected.'"

Muslim:C10B1N176 "Muhammad (may peace be upon him) sent us in a

raiding party. We raided Huraqat in the morning. I caught hold of a

man and he said: 'There is no god but Allah,' but I attacked him with

a spear anyway. It once occurred to me that I should ask the Apostle

about this. The Messenger said: 'Did he profess "There is no god but

Allah," and even then you killed him?' I said: 'He made a profession

out of the fear of the weapon I was threatening him with.' The Prophet

said: 'Did you tear out his heart in order to find out whether it had

professed truly or not?'"

Muslim:C20B1N4597 "The Prophet said at the conquest of Mecca: 'There

is no migration now, but only Jihad, fighting for the Cause of Islam.

When you are asked to set out on a Jihad expedition, you should

readily do so.'"

Muslim:C28B20N4628 "Allah has undertaken to provide for one who leaves

his home to fight for His Cause and to affirm the truth of His word;

Allah will either admit him to Paradise or will bring him back home

with his reward and booty."

Muslim:C28B20N4629 "The Messenger said: 'One who is wounded in the Way

of Allah - and Allah knows best who is wounded in His Way - will

appear on the Day of Judgment with his wound still bleeding. The color

(of its discharge) will be blood, (but) its smell will be musk.'"

Muslim:C34B20N4652-3 "The Merit Of Jihad And Of Keeping Vigilance Over

The Enemy: A man came to the Holy Prophet and said: 'Who is the best

of men?' He replied: 'A man who fights staking his life and spending

his wealth in Allah's Cause.'"

Muslim:C42B20N4684 "A desert Arab came to the Prophet and said:

'Messenger, one man fights for the spoils of war; another fights that

he may be remembered, and one fights that he may see his (high)

position (achieved as a result of his valor in fighting). Which of

these is fighting in the Cause of Allah?' The Messenger of Allah said:

'Who fights so that the word of Allah is exalted is fighting in the

Way of Allah.'"

Muslim:C53B20N4717 "The Prophet said: 'This religion will continue to

exist, and a group of people from the Muslims will continue to fight

for its protection until the Hour is established.'"

Bukhari:V5B59N288 "I witnessed a scene that was dearer to me than

anything I had ever seen. Aswad came to the Prophet while Muhammad was

urging the Muslims to fight the pagans. He said, 'We shall fight on

your right and on your left and in front of you and behind you.' I saw

the face of the Prophet getting bright with happiness, for that saying

delighted him."

Bukhari:V5B59N290 "The believers who did not join the Ghazwa [Islamic

raid or invasion] and those who fought are not equal in reward."

Qur'an:2:193 "Fight them until there is no more Fitnah (disbelief) and

religion is only for Allah. But if they cease/desist, let there be no

hostility except against infidel disbelievers."

Qur'an:2:217 "They question you concerning fighting in the sacred

month. Say: 'Fighting therein is a grave (matter); but to prevent

access to Allah, to deny Him, to prevent access to the Sacred Mosque,

to expel its members, and polytheism are worse than slaughter. Nor

will they cease fighting you until they make you renegades from your

religion. If any of you turn back and die in unbelief, your works will

be lost and you will go to Hell. Surely those who believe and leave

their homes to fight in Allah's Cause have the hope of Allah's mercy."

Qur'an:2:244 "Fight in Allah's Cause, and know that Allah hears and knows all."

Qur'an:2:246 "He said: 'Would you refrain from fighting if fighting

were prescribed for you?' They said: 'How could we refuse to fight in

Allah's Cause?'"

Ishaq:280 "The Apostle prepared for war in pursuance of Allah's

command to fight his enemies and to fight the infidels who Allah

commanded him to fight."

Qur'an:61:2 "O Muslims, why say one thing and do another? Grievously

odious and hateful is it in the sight of Allah that you say that which

you do not. Truly Allah loves those who fight in His Cause in a battle

array, as if they were a solid cemented structure."

Bukhari:V4B52N61 "Allah's Apostle! We were absent from the first

battle you fought against the pagans. If Allah gives us a chance to do

battle, no doubt, He will see how bravely we fight."

Ishaq:398 "Ask them for their help. Thereby make the religion of Islam

agreeable to them. And when you are resolved in the matter of religion

concerning fighting your enemy you will have the advantage."

Qur'an:3:146 "How many prophets fought in Allah's Cause? With them

(fought) myriads of godly men who were slain. They never lost heart if

they met with disaster in Allah's Cause, nor did they weaken nor give

in. Allah loves those who are firm and steadfast [warriors]."

Ishaq:393 "How many prophets has death in battle befallen and how many

multitudes with him? They did not show weakness toward their enemies

and were not humiliated when they suffered in the fight for Allah and

their religion. That is steadfastness. Allah loves the steadfast."

Qur'an:3:153 "Behold! You ran off precipitately, climbing up the high

hill without even casting a side glance at anyone, while the Messenger

in your rear is calling you from your rear, urging you to fight. Allah

gave you one distress after another by way of requital, to teach you

not to grieve for the booty that had escaped you and for (the ill)

that had befallen you."

Qur'an:3:154 "Say: 'Even if you had remained in your houses, those

ordained to be slaughtered would have gone forth to the places where

they were to slain."

Ishaq:440 "Helped by the Holy Spirit we smited Muhammad's foes. The

Apostle sent a message to them with a sharp cutting sword."

Ishaq:470 "We attacked them fully armed, swords in hand, cutting

through heads and skulls."

Qur'an:61:4 "Surely Allah loves those who fight in His Cause."

Qur'an:61:11 "Believers, shall I lead you to a bargain or trade that

will save you from a painful torment? That you believe in Allah and

His Messenger (Muhammad), and that you strive and fight in Allah's

Cause with your property and your lives: That will be best for you!"

Qur'an 61:12 "He will forgive you your sins, and admit you to Gardens

under which rivers flow, and to beautiful mansions in Eden: that is

indeed the Supreme Achievement. And another (favor) which you love:

help from Allah for a speedy victory over your enemies."

Qur'an:8:5 "Your Lord ordered you out of your homes to fight for the

true cause, even though some Muslims disliked it, and were averse (to

fighting)."

Qur'an:24:53 "They swear their strongest oaths saying that if only you

would command them. They would leave their homes (and go forth

fighting in Allah's Cause). Say: 'Swear not; Obedience is (more)

reasonable.'"

Qur'an:4:74 "Let those who fight in Allah's Cause sell this world's

life for the hereafter. To him who fights in Allah's Cause, whether he

is slain or victorious, We shall give him a reward."

Qur'an:4:75 "What reason have you that you should not fight in Allah's

Cause?" [Another translation says:] "What is wrong with you that you

do not fight for Allah?"

Qur'an:4:76 "Those who believe fight in the Cause of Allah."

Qur'an:4:77 "Have you not seen those to whom it was said: Withhold

from fighting, perform the prayer and pay the zakat. But when orders

for fighting were issued, a party of them feared men as they ought to

have feared Allah. They say: 'Our Lord, why have You ordained fighting

for us, why have You made war compulsory?'"

Qur'an:4:78 "Wherever you are, death will find you, even if you are in

towers strong and high! So what is wrong with these people, that they

fail to understand these simple words?"

Qur'an:4:84 "Then fight (Muhammad) in Allah's Cause. Incite the

believers to fight with you."

Qur'an:4:94 "Believers, when you go abroad to fight wars in Allah's

Cause, investigate carefully, and say not to anyone who greets you:

'You are not a believer!' Coveting the chance profits of this life (so

that you may despoil him). With Allah are plenteous spoils and booty."

Qur'an:4:95 "Not equal are believers who sit home and receive no hurt

and those who fight in Allah's Cause with their wealth and lives.

Allah has granted a grade higher to those who fight with their

possessions and bodies to those who sit home. Those who fight He has

distinguished with a special reward."

Qur'an:4:100 "He who leaves his home in Allah's Cause finds abundant

resources and many a refuge. Should he die as a refugee for Allah and

His Messenger His reward becomes due and sure with Allah. When you

travel through the earth there is no blame on you if you curtail your

worship for fear unbelievers may attack you. In truth the disbelievers

are your enemy."

Qur'an:4:102 "When you (Prophet) lead them in prayer, let some stand

with you, taking their arms with them. When they finish their

prostrations, let them take positions in the rear. And let others who

have not yet prayed come - taking all precaution, and bearing arms.

The Infidels wish, if you were negligent of your arms, to assault you

in a rush. But there is no blame on you if you put away your arms

because of the inconvenience of rain or because you are ill; but take

precaution. For the Unbelieving Infidels Allah hath prepared a

humiliating punishment."

Qur'an:4:104 "And do not relent in pursuing the enemy."

quote:kareltje01 schreef op 20 augustus 2010 @ 15:45:

Heer/Dame Tyche,



Ik kan toch moeilijk de koran herschrijven ik zou een miljard fatwas over me heen krijgen, vandaar het origineel, nou ja vertaald naar het Engels:



[lang citaat]

Ah, ik had niet begrepen dat het herschrijven van de koran het doel van je bijdrage was. Ik denk dat het veel duidelijker wordt wat je wilt zeggen als je het gewoon in eigen woorden zegt, ipv een enorm citaat te plaatsen zonder eigen inbreng.

quote:tyche schreef op 20 augustus 2010 @ 15:50:

[...]



Ah, ik had niet begrepen dat het herschrijven van de koran het doel van je bijdrage was. Ik denk dat het veel duidelijker wordt wat je wilt zeggen als je het gewoon in eigen woorden zegt, ipv een enorm citaat te plaatsen zonder eigen inbreng.Mohammed was een warlord naar huidige maatstaven.

Kareltje klinkt steeds meer als een bekraste langspeelplaat naar mijn maatstaven.

quote:IlikeFormentera schreef op 20 augustus 2010 @ 15:11:

Ik geloof niet dat er iemand echt weet waarom Kars T. met zijn suzukietje op de mensenmassa inrijdt. Daar is meer speculatie over dan dat er keiharde feiten over bekend zijn. De man was naw 'de weg kwijt' ....Dat is natuurlijk wel weer een typisch symptoom van autochtone mannen.

Kareltje, dat gecopy en geplak begint echt vervelend worden!

quote:Dibah schreef op 20 augustus 2010 @ 15:28:

[...]





Als ik van jou een fotoboek van uit jouw jeugd verschuur zul je heel boos en verdrietig zijn. Als er 1 miljoen van zijn, dan zal je er toch niet over in de war zitten? Dat is met Bijbel en de Koran ook zo, men maakt ze heilig maar dat zijn ze niet.Ik geloof niet in heilig als een ding op zich, maar mensen kunnen wel degelijk heiligheid toeschrijven aan objecten. Ook als dat raar of irrationeel is, geeft dat nog geen goede reden om dat obejct te vernietigen. Stel dat je weet dat ik die andere duizenden fotoalbums óók koester, zou je er dan alsnog één verscheuren? Wat zou het nut daarvan zijn? Zou het punt dat je ermee wilt maken het waard zijn dat ik gekwetst wordt?

Uiteraard gaat het om de symboliek Dibah maar dat weet je zelf ook wel. Als er vlaggen verbrand worden zijn mensen ook niet boos / verontwaardigd / gekwetst omdat ze toevallig geen andere vlaggen meer hadden liggen, toch?

Scheiding tussen kerk en staat lijkt me geen slecht idee.